“The discovery [of the Higgs Boson particle] is yet another demonstration of Scientific methodology as the scrupulous process by which humankind acquires and authenticates all knowledge. The importance of this becomes more obvious when contrasted against the current resurgence of rabid religionism, especially the unabashed and exuberant anti-intellectualism of those who assert that they hold special knowledge, supplied by talkative deities, and who strive to supplant Science with bronze age origin fables.” The Washington Post
OK, I know I’m taking a risk with this post. It could backfire. I think it’s worthy of discussion.
So where do I stand in all of this?
To put it simply, I’m a confused agnostic. Yes, I’m a fence sitter.
On the one hand, I don’t believe in God. On the other, I don’t not believe either (double negative, sorry). I told you I was confused.
I tend to agree with one part of the Washington Post article*. The bible is a collection of fables written a long time ago and it doesn’t convince me one iota there is a god. But it doesn’t mean I don’t believe. It just means I have seen no compelling evidence to sway me. The jury is still out in my book.
However, the discovery of the Higgs Boson particle – while super exciting for a lot of white-coated boffins with unruly hair and clipboards – doesn’t answer anything. It begs more questions.
What created the Higgs Boson particle? And what gave the particle its legs? What happened before nothing?
Yes, science is rigorous and robust (read fastidious and narky). To that I don’t doubt (my training is in public health so I appreciate the rigour). In fact, science has saved my life on more than one occasion, and for that I am eternally grateful. But it doesn’t answer the questions I want answering about creation. All this does is confuse me more, because it seems to bring science and religion one step closer together. Think about it for a second. Both are saying something was created out of nothing. Yet the discussion always seems to be positioned as one against the other, like they can’t co-exist.
Hence me sitting on the fence.
I may be missing something, or simply not smart enough. That’s why I need your help.
- What do you think? Does this discovery help us answer our questions about creation?
- Can science and religion co-exist?
Or is this much ado about nothing? Is there even any benefit to humankind knowing?
I’m keen to hear what you think…
Yours,
Confused
*for the record, I thought the way the Washington Post article was written stinks. It takes a stab at anti-intellectualism while trying very hard to be overly intellectual to the point of nausea.
July 15, 2012 at 7:50 pm
I’m sitting right next to you.
July 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm
you can shield me when I get shot at
July 16, 2012 at 7:04 am
This is something that gets discussed quite a bit in our house; my husband has recently discovered he is a militant atheist and spends his days listening to interviews with Richard Dawkins. I like to think of myself as more open to the possibility – although that being said I am more comfortable with “we don’t know yet” as an answer to the creation of the universe, than “God did it” as a complete explanation.
I don’t think the two have to be mutually exclusive. You can believe in evolution and God at the same time, in my opinion, and I think that lots of people do. I saw a debate earlier this year between the Catholic Archbishop of Sydney and Richard Dawkins, and the archbishop was saying he believes in evolution. The Seventh Day Adventists I watched the show with vehemently disagreed with him though, so I guess for some it is still either/or.
My bottom line is pretty much, as long as you aren’t hurting anyone else, or telling them what to believe, you can believe what you like.
July 16, 2012 at 10:30 am
I saw the Dawkins/Pell discussion on Q&A. Very interesting, although I came away thinking Pell hadn’t done any good for selling religion.
I agree with you though, the jury is still out and I do also believe there will be a coming together rather than a widening gap between science and religion.
However, all that matters to me is that people are allowed their beliefs and respected for them. We’re all different after all.
Thanks for your considered comments. Much appreciated.
Andy
July 16, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Me too – I’m all in favour of religious tolerance and understanding. Something that might be the domain of the middle ground I think.
July 16, 2012 at 7:12 am
The term “God Particle” came from the book “The God Particle / If the Universe is the Answer, What is the Question?,” by Leon Lederman & Dick Teresi (first published in 1993 and reissued in 2006), which is in the bibliography of my free ebook on comparative mysticism.
In his 2006 Preface Dr. Lederman, a Nobel laureate in physics, wrote:
Now as for the title, The God Particle, my coauthor, Dick Teresi, has agreed to accept the blame. I mentioned the phrase as a joke once in a speech, and he remembered it and used it as the working title of the book. “Don’t worry,” he said, “no publisher ever uses the working title on the final book.” The title ended up offending two groups: 1) those who believe in God and 2) those who do not. We were warmly received by those in the middle.
There are probably more people “in the middle” than most religious leaders and atheists would care to admit.
July 16, 2012 at 10:36 am
Thanks for the context, very interesting. It takes some doing to offend both sides of the argument!
I am firmly (well, not firmly, more like shakily) in the middle, until I hear something that persuades me otherwise.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Much appreciated.
Andy
July 17, 2012 at 5:07 am
I too am a confused agnostic!! :/ Born a Roman Catholic and influenced by Islam, Sikhism and scientific knowledge, I am confused even further! One thing that does make me think though is that there are lots of things that we can’t see, hear, smell etc but we do know they exist! Glad to join you in the confusion! :)
July 17, 2012 at 8:35 am
Hi Peter
Yes there are so many things science can’t answer. And the more they find out the more that needs answering. So, yes, more confusion!
Thanks for contributing.
Andy
July 17, 2012 at 6:59 pm
Not sure about it either…..when I read Stephen Hawkings “A brief history of time” it made the universe so vast and expansive….even more than I had realized, that when there are articles about this it just makes my head hurt. Because, yes, what was there before nothing? And how can we possibly figure out what happened before (or after) for that matter since no one was actually there? Are we sure that these creations in a lab are what happened or just speculation and/or desire to find an answer, THE answer? I agree with Jo Frederic above, we should all just be more tolerant of everybody else’s beliefs, I mean, who are we to destroy what someone believes in?
July 20, 2012 at 3:59 pm
The stephen Hawkins book was meant to be quantum physics for lay people. I got confused in the preface! Mind bendingly confusing for me.
And agree, differences make the world go round!
July 18, 2012 at 12:14 pm
perfect sign off. i plan on sitting on the fence until further notice as well.
July 18, 2012 at 12:16 pm
There’s a few of us!
July 19, 2012 at 11:18 am
Have you ever read the Bible? I mean whole chapters and not just a few verses? Have you ever tried to read books that would help you to further understand it? I find a lot of people say they don’t believe but have never even read it. How can a person say she does not believe in something without reading the actual text upon which it is based? Consider starting in the NT in John or Psalms in OT. Also, there is an older book, “Know Why You Believe” by Paul E. Little that is fascinating, and I think, discusses a lot of the questions posed here.
July 19, 2012 at 12:41 pm
Hi Rachel, I was brought up in a strong catholic family and was taught about Christianity for a large proportion of my school life. So yes I have read it, over time. And yes, chapters, not just verses.
It just doesn’t sit well with me. Especially when a lot of intolerance and global issues are religious in origin. So I’m a bit cynical.
But that’s only my opinion. Many support mine and many more don’t. And I respect yours, so thanks for taking the time to comment. It makes the world a more interesting place.
Andy
July 20, 2012 at 8:10 am
I understand. My husband was also raised Catholic & having been raised in a Christ-centered home myself, I have certainly had (& have) doubts & questions, experienced hypocrisy, & can become frustrated by the church. However, that’s religion & a human construct. Many of the traditions & rituals of Catholicism, although not necessarily wrong, are not biblical (For instance, priests in the Bible were married. Might save us some real problems these days if vows of celibacy weren’t forced???) You mentioned the stories of the Bible, & I think we tend to trivialize those or miss the context & fundamentals & get distracted & think we have to be perfect. I would only suggest that you give the Bible further consideration & maybe read it again now that you are perhaps at a different point in your life? I think that the intolerance stems partly because humans taint & distort the simple truths of Christianity.
I love reading posts like yours.
July 20, 2012 at 10:26 am
Hi Rachel, glad you like this type of post. I intend to get respectful discussion with these. If you go to Thinking section of my blog, there are a couple of others, including one asking whether all people are selfish.
As for the bible, I’d love to give it another go. But with two young kids and busy job, I don’t have a whole lot of time to devote. But when I do get more time, I’ll give it another chance. Maybe I’ll become a christian in retirement. Is that too late?
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I appreciate and respect your viewpoint.
Andy
August 1, 2012 at 11:10 am
Right now, HB is a stretch. Religion, it has a cast of characters a mile long. Some mean well, some get derailed, some just are there for the outfit, and some really add to what we have. Religion is like common law, there is always a case. HB? What does it do for me? At least religion gives us a boxing match, a corner to fight from. Even if we point the finger at them and say that is flat out wrong. HB is not there yet. It will get there, but we cannot say it’s wrong. Who signs up for theories these days? The devil will be in the detail, in the hands of the mischievous. Nearly said politicians.
August 9, 2012 at 10:48 am
Hey, you have similar views as me. HB is a stretch. Science doesn’t answer a lot. Religion gives people something to latch on to. Who am I to judge?
August 1, 2012 at 9:49 pm
I’ve been meaning to comment on this post for ages. This topic is something I talk about a lot with my circle of friends.
So here’s where I’m at:
- I was brought up in a VERY catholic family who believe in both God and evolution. I personally don’t understand this. For me, it’s either one or the other.
- I went to a strict Seventh Day Adventist private school where so called ‘Christian’ people did not behave in a very Christ like manner. My parent’s best friends on the other hand are Buddist, and to me, they have always seemed to demonstrate far more Christ like behaviours than any Christian I’ve ever met.
- I married someone who has dabbled in just about every religion, including the Adventist church, the Pentecostal church and the Latter Day Saints (Mormans) to name a few. This too has given me lots of insight into different religious theories out there. E’s also read the entire bible in every different version as well as all the books of Morman. We both now conclude that there’s SO many variances that it’s impossible to know what is actually true. People get really caught up in all the details of the bible but really, what is at it’s core across every version is what I like – how did God act towards the world and people. What sort of character does he have? What does he want the world to be?
- I go to church every week and pray every single day because I do 100% believe in God and I don’t need for him to be proved to me in a scientific sense. Lots of things can’t be proved scientifically but they are still true.
- I feel his presence all the time and I guess that’s all I need. For me, I don’t need to know. I just need to belive. And I do.
August 9, 2012 at 10:43 am
Thanks Janine, top comments. I think this is what it comes down to. We are all different, with different views and different beliefs. We have to do what works for us.
January 17, 2013 at 1:59 am
Great issue – thanks for taking the risk. I’m a Christian, but I’m also a (social) scientist. It drives me nuts that certain brands of modern christianity have become anti-science. If there is a God and he created the world in all it’s splendor, certainly science – the investigation of that world, should only further demonstrate and point to his existence. Sure there are we don’t understand and things we think we understand, but really don’t (just think how sure scientists were that the earth was flat or that the earth was the center of the universe). Still I’m convinced that there is a God and that he enjoys us exploring the world he created. I’m not sure what the Higgs-Boson proves, if anything, but I think it’s pretty awesome that we’ve found it, and I don’t think the church should be afraid of it. Just my two cents…